Are/were cars really that cheap in the UK?

"BlazinAce - Doctor of Internal Combustion" (pbs) 07/27/2014 at 23:16 • Filed to: None

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I'm still hooked on watching Top Gear, so I figured I'd start at the start, back when one of the presenters was all about offering buying tips, and they're going like "Oh, this is just a very basic hatchback, three doors and such, but you can get them for 4 thousand, that's seriously cheap" and it totally is!

4 thousand is the kind of money a well used car goes for down here in Brazil. I know people who paid more for 1980's VWs, and not collector vehicles either, but beaters they were gonna put to work. I don't think I've ever heard of someone getting so much car for so little money, except maybe for that guy who lived next to my grandparents, in 1997 he got a Dodge Dart, one of the earlier, better looking ones, for a bike. Not a motorbike, but an actual bicycle, but that was the 90's.

norskracer98-ExploringTheOutback > BlazinAce - Doctor of Internal Combustion 07/27/2014 at 23:18

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Don't forget that the pound is stronger than the USD and probably more than Brazilian money too.

cabarne4 > BlazinAce - Doctor of Internal Combustion 07/27/2014 at 23:20

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New or used? On the new market, they have smaller cars with smaller engines that aren't offered in the US. You can buy a brand new car for well under £10,000.

The used market is where it gets interesting. Remember that the UK (and Ireland) drive on the incorrect side of the road, and thus have their steering wheels all switched around. Mainland Europe isn't ass-backwards. This means that there's a very limited used market for these vehicles. Nobody on the mainland wants them. You can ship them off to 3rd world countries, but even people there want controls on the appropriate side. Australia already buys all their used cars from Japan (because of Japan's insurance regulations forcing people into newer cars, all the older cars basically hop down to Australia). This means the UK has more used cars than they know what to do with. Because of this, you can find good running, low mileage cars for even under £500.

Ninja edit: Also, the Pound is stronger than the US Dollar. £1.00 is about $1.70 at today's exchange rate. So that £10,000 VW Polo actually costs more like $17,000. That said, comparing apples to apples doesn't always add up like that. Take the Golf GTI, for example. Starting price in the UK is £26,330. Starting price in the US is $24,995. That means the Brits spend almost $45,000 on a brand new Golf GTI. Now, going back to the used market — this means the Brits get absolutely RAPED when it comes to depreciation.

BlazinAce - Doctor of Internal Combustion > norskracer98-ExploringTheOutback 07/27/2014 at 23:27

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Yup, but four thousand anything for a brand new car, even a basic one, still seems like one hell of a deal. The pound is about 4 reais right now, so that's a big difference, but I can't begin to imagine being able to buy a new car for 12 thousand reais. Cheapest new car available will still knock you back at least twice that.

norskracer98-ExploringTheOutback > BlazinAce - Doctor of Internal Combustion 07/27/2014 at 23:28

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How old was the episode? If it was like 2004 it's understandable but if it's recent I think the cheapest is like 7500 pounds today.

BlazinAce - Doctor of Internal Combustion > cabarne4 07/27/2014 at 23:30

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New, at least on that occasion. Can you really find good used cars for that low? I always thought the Top Gear cheap car challenges had a healthy dose of exagerating when it came to just how cheap the cars were really...

BlazinAce - Doctor of Internal Combustion > norskracer98-ExploringTheOutback 07/27/2014 at 23:30

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It's the very second one, from 2001, I think.

cabarne4 > BlazinAce - Doctor of Internal Combustion 07/27/2014 at 23:33

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This article from the Telegraph lists the 10 cheapest new "cars" for sale in the UK (The Renault Twizy just...isn't...a car). While it's 2 years old, a quick hop over to Dacia's website confirms that the Sandero still starts at £5,995 (or about $10,200 USD). Pretty cheap for a fully functioning car, with warranty and everything.

norskracer98-ExploringTheOutback > BlazinAce - Doctor of Internal Combustion 07/27/2014 at 23:34

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Yeah so in 2001 4,000 quid seems to be quite reasonable. Like I said now it's nearly double for the cheapest car, I think.

cabarne4 > BlazinAce - Doctor of Internal Combustion 07/27/2014 at 23:37

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Oh yeah. Sub £1,000 actually buys you a decent amount. Check my reply in the other comment chain regarding new car prices.

I'm actually planning for the Mongol Rally next summer, and have been trolling autotrader.co.uk and motors.ebay.co.uk to see what can be had. There's plenty of Ka's, Micra's, Matiz's, and all sorts of other small hatchbacks with ridiculously underpowered engines for under £1,000.

BlazinAce - Doctor of Internal Combustion > cabarne4 07/27/2014 at 23:37

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Damn... The exact same car starts at 30 thousand here in Brazil. That's 4 thousand reais more than a direct conversion of the british Sandero.

cabarne4 > BlazinAce - Doctor of Internal Combustion 07/27/2014 at 23:40

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The Dacia Sandero? That's some crazy inflation for you guys!

According to this article (though it's a few years old) the cheapest car in Brazil is the Chery QQ. Granted, I remember them being in a legal battle with Chevy due to a similar name, but not sure if that's effected their market share in Brazil. At 23,220 reals, it's still more expensive than the Sandero when converted directly to British Pounds (£6,131.78).

BlazinAce - Doctor of Internal Combustion > norskracer98-ExploringTheOutback 07/27/2014 at 23:41

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All that is due to inflation, or there are other reasons behind it? I just had the most glaring example of rampant inflation the other day, flipping through old car magazines. In 1976, 28 thousand Cruzeiros (Brazilian money at the time) bought you a V8 powered Dodge Dart SE. In 1980, 28 thousand Cruzeiros didn't buy you a magazine to read about the Dodge Dart SE.

norskracer98-ExploringTheOutback > BlazinAce - Doctor of Internal Combustion 07/27/2014 at 23:43

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A mix of inflation and the market crash in 2008/9 happened in the US too. Since 08 prices of just about everything have been climbing, it's not a fun thing to live in. Doesn't sound as bad as Brazil but it's bad compared to when I was younger.

BlazinAce - Doctor of Internal Combustion > cabarne4 07/27/2014 at 23:45

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Oh, I remember that, but the lawsuit was actually because Chery was picking up people laid off by General Motors at much worse working conditions. As for the QQ, you'd have to be mental to buy one, those things are veritable death traps, even for Brazilian standards. A reporter from Car & Driver came very close to killing himself in one once, and they had to cut the car's road test short because of that.

BlazinAce - Doctor of Internal Combustion > norskracer98-ExploringTheOutback 07/27/2014 at 23:50

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Yeah, Brazil was holding itself somehow in the years following the 2008 crash, but prices have recently started to climb again. People were just about fed up with it, but armchair politicians on Facebook and Twitter started ridiculing anyone that even dared criticise the government, so now it's taboo to even think badly about the president or the worker's party that stuffed their pockets while all of this happened. Seriously, you say a single word and soon enough an army of hippies, hipsters, militants, "intellectuals", what have you, will be calling you stuff like Playboy, white elite, Coxinha, which doesn't even have a translation. It's sad really.

cabarne4 > BlazinAce - Doctor of Internal Combustion 07/27/2014 at 23:52

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Yeah, I figured as much. Chinese crash tests don't look very promising.

And that's a mid-sized sedan and an SUV! Can't imagine how well their super-mini's would fair.

I don't speak Portuguese, but this guy doesn't seem too excited about the car's safety features:

norskracer98-ExploringTheOutback > BlazinAce - Doctor of Internal Combustion 07/27/2014 at 23:54

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Jesus, luckily the US isn't like that. People just get offended by stuff that people shouldn't be offended by. I'm not talking civil issues here I'm talking that someone didn't get a refund for something that wasn't a businesses fault.

BlazinAce - Doctor of Internal Combustion > cabarne4 07/28/2014 at 00:10

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Basically, he said he drove a QQ in China and had to take a second look at the odometer because, instead of the 800 km it showed, the car felt like it had 800 thousand km. That's how bad it was. As for the crash tests, the images speak for themselves. All of the airbags and safety features advertised for these cars are useless the moment you crash and all the interior fittings break off and the airbags fire in all the wrong directions. Even the steering wheel is so weak it snaps off and the airbag deploys above the driver's head, which hits the steering column face first.

BlazinAce - Doctor of Internal Combustion > norskracer98-ExploringTheOutback 07/28/2014 at 00:11

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I know right? You can't complain about any sort of thing at all in Brazil anymore without having the famine of Africa thrown in your face...

norskracer98-ExploringTheOutback > BlazinAce - Doctor of Internal Combustion 07/28/2014 at 00:16

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I guess it's because it's in our constitution that we're, kind of, allowed to speak our minds. Of course there's things we can't but no one, well some people will, will attack you for speaking your mind in the US.

BlazinAce - Doctor of Internal Combustion > norskracer98-ExploringTheOutback 07/28/2014 at 00:30

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It's actually in ours too... You won't get persecuted or anything, but there's a sort of common sense, of political correctness that you can't deviate from without drawing angry stares.

For example, there's a "feminist campaign for men" that's been drawing attention lately because it calls for men to use skirts and be sensible, and smell flowers and free themselves from their own sexism, which is great, I mean, I think everyone should do whatever they want without being disrespected for it, but if I say that, no, I won't put on a skirt and go out to smell flowers, that I'd rather stay in my trousers and go out for a cruise in my car, I get called sexist, wannabe macho man, the works. Again, I'm not saying they can't do all that. By all means, go to town if that's what you want, but my interests lie elsewhere and I don't want to be disrespected for that either... Geeze, sorry for the mini rant, but it's been crap down here.

norskracer98-ExploringTheOutback > BlazinAce - Doctor of Internal Combustion 07/28/2014 at 00:32

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Exactly, if you want to do that I've no issue with it and I'm not going to stop you. Doesn't mean I'd do it. I'd smell flowers but I wouldn't wear a skirt. I'd tear around in the country side enjoying nature in my own way. With the windows down.

TwinCharged - Is Now UK Opponaut > BlazinAce - Doctor of Internal Combustion 07/28/2014 at 00:34

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I remember picking up an AutoTrader magazine where there was a section where cars were being sold for £100 or less. Quality varied wildly, but I'm pretty sure there were some used cars there that were reasonably good buys.

BlazinAce - Doctor of Internal Combustion > norskracer98-ExploringTheOutback 07/28/2014 at 00:35

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Yeah, that's exactly it, you can't say that anymore in Brazil! It's politically incorrect and frowned upon.

norskracer98-ExploringTheOutback > BlazinAce - Doctor of Internal Combustion 07/28/2014 at 00:37

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It's not really frowned upon here, but you can see what happens if you say something wrong here. If you saw K-Roll's post last night you know what I'm talking about.

cabarne4 > BlazinAce - Doctor of Internal Combustion 07/28/2014 at 01:36

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Wow. That car sounds incredible.

BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires > cabarne4 07/28/2014 at 06:05

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One thing to mention when comparing new car prices in the UK and the US is that US prices are quoted before tax while UK prices are quoted after tax.

It's still much more expensive over here, but the differential is slightly less.

I love our used car market though. My Jaaag cost me all of £1440, and it's been a stunning runner.

If you want a boggo 2.0l Ford Mondeo or Vauxhall Astra, you can easily pick one up for ~£500.

KirkyV > BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires 07/28/2014 at 10:28

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Speaking of our used market, I want this so badly : http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/adv…

It's just really hard to justify getting a whole new car when there's nothing wrong with my current one.

KirkyV > cabarne4 07/28/2014 at 10:32

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There's far more than just shitty - the Ka's actually a pretty good car, but the Micra and Matiz are fucking god-awful - hatchbacks around for less than £1000. There's coupes, roadsters, saloons, and really great hatchbacks all knocking around that price-point in decent shape.

BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires > KirkyV 07/28/2014 at 11:14

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That's an absolute steal, provided there aren't any hidden problems.

I also find it difficult justifying purchasing cars that are similar in MO. I don't mind having tons of the things if they provide different experiences/fulfill different functions, but while I've got an XJ40 I don't think I could justify buying an SD1 and an Alfa 6 as well...

KirkyV > BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires 07/28/2014 at 11:57

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It's a great price, and the car does look to be in good shape in the ad—though, of course, that doesn't necessarily mean much. It's about a hundred miles away from me, so actually going to check it out would take quite a while, and I wouldn't be able to take it for a proper test drive without arranging temporary insurane.

cabarne4 > KirkyV 07/28/2014 at 14:54

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Yeah — like I said I've been shopping with Mongol Rally in mind. Fucking god-awful hatchbacks is kind of the point.

As horrible as it is, I'm actually leaning towards the Daewoo / Chevy Matiz. Reason being, it's apparently the most popular car in Uzbekistan. Meaning after putting the car through hell, I'd likely find a shop who not only knows how to mend it, but would actually have some spares before pushing on to Kazakhstan and Mongolia.

Ninja edit: Although I think a Daihatsu Copen would be pretty epic, cargo space be damned.

KirkyV > cabarne4 07/28/2014 at 15:04

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Rally Copen? You must.

cabarne4 > KirkyV 07/28/2014 at 15:41

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Oh god. So much want.